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 Post subject: Re: [TPN HIATUS SPECIAL] SYM Debate: Rough Draft Forum?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:40 am 
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I am being subjective here.

Although, like Si-chan, I'm not sure if I can speak on this matter, since I'm a lurker now...
I just want to say... I think everything that has been said here is true, or... more or less, I agree.

1. Do you think the Panboard is a "rough draft forum"?

Nope.

Why not?

Because there's no rules or whatsoever that said that we couldn't talk about non-rough-draft version of Pandect, or even, Dina's other project, here.

Why it is possible for someone to think so?

Because the colored version of Pandect is rarely mentioned here.
Although actually, it is because of the lack of activity in this forum, not because this is a 'rough draft forum'.
I'm sure, if Dina promoted this forum, visit this forum often, and like Ibe said, post little treats here... like old times, this forum will become alive again, and people will start talking not only about the 'rough draft version' of the Pandect, but also the 'colored version', here.

2. How did it make you feel as a fan to see the forum being called a "rough draft forum"?

I'm not happy with it.

Anyway, being a lurker (with a reason that Sagechan called as "developing adult lives"), actually I only wanted to see the ending...
Although, like Maiju once said to me... I doubt we could see the ending of Pandect, either version.

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 Post subject: Re: [TPN HIATUS SPECIAL] SYM Debate: Rough Draft Forum?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 2:39 pm 
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Although, like Maiju once said to me... I doubt we could see the ending of Pandect, either version.
Wasn't I talking about the ComicGen version? XD Hahahaha, I can't remember. ^^;;; But I do believe that the ComicGen version will never be finished with the way things are. The print version is a shortened and slightly changed story, so I don't think it's very likely the ending to that version is identical to the ending planned for the ComicGen version. I believe I've mentioned this to some members already... I think it would be a nice, respectful gesture from Dina to those of us who have been fans for roughly a decade now if she teahouse'd the ComicGen version after the print version is finished and let us know what her plans for the "rough draft" were. We've heard so much over the years about Noah's sons, Delia's partner and many other characters and story features in passing, so it would be nice to hear if any of them would've come to play and how the rest of the ComicGen version would've progressed had it been finished.

And you know what guys, screw objectivity, I'm just gonna type what I think and feel. Good ol' SYM style. XD There'll probably be typos and Sober, but I'll be back later to fix them. Now, time to produce a wall of text!

I've never felt like we were a rough draft forum, and Virgie and I have tried to incorporate a lot of stuff about the print version in the Note over the years to make that clear to anyone and everyone. Why we're getting this sort of treatment, I'm not sure. We don't make much noise about the forum, so I guess we'd be easy to forget. But to think that Dina of all people forgot the forum, which I believe she herself started initially back in the 1.0 days, is kind of shocking to me. The forum has always been were the most "hardcore" of fans have been and bonded, and I think we've (actives and lurkers alike) earned that status over the years.

We stood by Dina during all the hiatuses, even the painfully long two-year one, despite getting no word from her. At one point the Panstore disappeared without a trace and some fans were left without their paid purchases, at another point we had to relay messages to Dina via "an editor" (who we haven't heard about since), but we still stuck by her and Pandect. Once Dina returned, I think we all thought things would change, only to soon realize that they didn't. Not for us here in the forum. Like Ibe pointed out, Kameko, who I haven't seen being active in the fandom since 2009, is still hosting the forum, even though Dina made promises to move the forum to pandectcomic.com, a move which I'm sure would've added to number of active members. And slowly, we were forgotten altogether. But the most painful part in it is that we seem to be the only part of the fandom who have been left behind.

The Disqus chat gets about ten comments every week and Dina actively replies to those comments. The eleven people who are supporting Dina financially via Patreon have gotten almost 40 posts from Dina since she created Patreon (although I think at least some of those posts are fanart, not Pandect art). I'm not sure about any other forms that the fandom may have taken, but from what I've seen, we're the only part of the fandom who doesn't get much promotion and who Dina doesn't actively engage in. Ibe's contest got another shoutout in the blurb for the most recent Pandect page, which I suppose is something to be happy about since it's better than nothing, but what would've counted even more is Dina making an appearence in the forum to support the contest in addition to that shoutout. With 1.0 and early 2.3, it was people following Dina to the forum, she's always been the one to set the course. If she's only on Disqus, you can bet all the new fans who don't even know about the forum will stay only on Disqus.

I guess one thing to blame is the scattering of the fandom. Back in the days of 1.0, we had the chat and the forum, which were the main platforms for the fandom, while smaller communities like the Pandect LJ comms, dA and so on had their own small fandom groups (whose members often were members in the forum, as well). Anyone remember the PanRPG? That thing was huge at one point, but suffered a death blow when the hiatuses started and many of the mods there went MIA - a fate that many other platforms of the fandom also shared. Nowadays, there are fans here, and in the chat, in Tumblr, in dA, in FB, and so on. The fandom has also shrunk in size since its hayday. A much smaller fandom spread onto several platforms, I guess that automatically results in smaller attendance here, as well. But even that fact doesn't change the more important fact of Dina not supporting the forum like she supports Disqus, for example. Wouldn't it be nice to have those people who talk about the new page in Disqus come here and talk about it with us, too? I think so.

Like Sagie, I also respect Dina as an artist and Pandect's creator. However she wants to prefer different areas of the fandom, at the end of the day, it's her right to do so. But also like Sagie, I'm really disappointed in this treatment where the forum seems to be something like a thing of the past. We've stuck in the fandom through thick and thin, we've supported Dina even when we had no idea if she would ever return to the comic. But because we're not paying supporters like the people on Patreon, we get the shaft? Surely that's not right. Don't the ten years many of us have spent with the forum and in the fandom mean nothing? Like Sagie said, we've tried hard to keep people interested in fandom and this forum. Spent countless hours doing so. I do have a life outside the fandom as well, but I still keep putting in hours into the forum. The way I feel with comments like "the rough draft forum" is that our time is much less valuable than someone else's time or dollars. And sure, everyone has the right to prefer whatever they prefer. But nowhere does it say I can't be disappointed about it.

And this isn't just about the "rough draft forum" comment. It's a broader matter about the treatment we've been getting quite some time now. Now, I love this place. I've made wonderful friends in this forum, I've gone through fun times and major dramas during an entire decade and I'm grateful for every moment, even the bad ones, because we went through those together. Similarly I'm grateful to Dina and Pandect, because if it weren't for them, I would've never met you guys. This is a place that holds a very special place in my heart: we've grown up together from teenagers and people in the early 20s, we've sweated through exams together, been there for each other during the highs and lows of young adulthood and now we've even got the first Panbaby on the way. So, I guess what I'm trying to say is, I wish Dina could be here to see this, too, and appreciate it like we do. I wish other members of the fandom could be here too, because we would treat all of them like friends. This is a wonderful place because all of you have made it a wonderful place for me, and everyone else who happens to stop by - and that's a big reason for me why seeing the forum get mistreated by anyone feels so bad. Love you guys. <3


ETA:

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From the chat.

Because Dina only comments in Disqus, not the forum, other people comment on the contest on Disqus, too, instead of coming here and doing that. The Wardrobe Revamp thread should be getting this kinds of comments, not the chat.

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 Post subject: Re: [TPN HIATUS SPECIAL] SYM Debate: Rough Draft Forum?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:34 pm 
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maiju wrote:
I think it would be a nice, respectful gesture from Dina to those of us who have been fans for roughly a decade now if she teahouse'd the ComicGen version after the print version is finished and let us know what her plans for the "rough draft" were. We've heard so much over the years about Noah's sons, Delia's partner and many other characters and story features in passing, so it would be nice to hear if any of them would've come to play and how the rest of the ComicGen version would've progressed had it been finished.


I agree very strongly with this. When Teahouse ended, C and Emi's decission to write down the main characters' endings and share with their readers told me that they really cared about their fans, and that they valued the time making the comic as much as the readers valued the effort they put into making it. If the comicgen version is at a definite end (which I honestly believe it is) I think it would be a nice gesture of Dina to share with us how it would have ended as we've stood by her through thick and thin, pardon the cliché.

Quote:
I've never felt like we were a rough draft forum, and Virgie and I have tried to incorporate a lot of stuff about the print version in the Note over the years to make that clear to anyone and everyone(....)But even that fact doesn't change the more important fact of Dina not supporting the forum like she supports Disqus, for example. Wouldn't it be nice to have those people who talk about the new page in Disqus come here and talk about it with us, too? I think so.


This is why I can't seem to be able to wrap my head around the idea that we're labeled as a 'rough draft' forum because of the lack of printed pandect discussions. If there's anyone who's done a better job than the two of you in including the printed pandect pages I'd like for them to be pointed out, 'cause I can't think of anyone. Every issue of the note has included news and reactions to printed pandect since it started, and as far as I know none of us reads comicgen exclusively. We're maybe 5 members currently who logs in at a regular basis at random hours of the day, any discussion about both versions happen over time instead of right away but we've never excluded one for the other. I think new members from the commenters on disquus would be able to contribute a lot to any and all discussions here, comic related and other subjects, but the fact remains that if the forum isn't promoted and backed up by Dina herself it becomes less attractive to join.

I no longer believe we have Dina's support in the way that we used to, if we did then surely she'd give us more place of importance on the printed comic site and come by here more often.


Quote:
Ibe's contest got another shoutout in the blurb for the most recent Pandect page, which I suppose is something to be happy about since it's better than nothing, but what would've counted even more is Dina making an appearence in the forum to support the contest in addition to that shoutout.


pffft, the commenters believe she's behind the whole thing and can't wait to see what she has in store next. <.<

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 Post subject: Re: [TPN HIATUS SPECIAL] SYM Debate: Rough Draft Forum?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:58 pm 
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I agree very strongly with this. When Teahouse ended, C and Emi's decission to write down the main characters' endings and share with their readers told me that they really cared about their fans, and that they valued the time making the comic as much as the readers valued the effort they put into making it. If the comicgen version is at a definite end (which I honestly believe it is) I think it would be a nice gesture of Dina to share with us how it would have ended as we've stood by her through thick and thin, pardon the cliché.
That's exactly the feeling I got, too. Well, to be honest, I never doubted their love for the story, but the way they shared it with the fans and gave everyone closure when they had no obligation to do so spoke of respect and gratitude towards those who had supported them. I thought it was the best possible way to end an excellent webcomic halfway through and I really appreciate their honesty in coming up and saying that they got too busy and they're ending the comic, without drawing it out too much.

For a few months now I've kinda wanted to post up a headcanon thread in Pandect Talk where everyone can make up alternative reality endings, no matter how extremely broad (like, finishing up all the storylines) or extremely narrow (coming up with a description for the next page or deciding what a character would say in a single panel sometime in the future). ^^ Like, a group effort to wrap up the ComicGen version, where all interpretations are equally correct.

Quote:
I think new members from the commenters on disquus would be able to contribute a lot to any and all discussions here, comic related and other subjects, but the fact remains that if the forum isn't promoted and backed up by Dina herself it becomes less attractive to join.

I no longer believe we have Dina's support in the way that we used to, if we did then surely she'd give us more place of importance on the printed comic site.
Truth right here. So much truth. The Disqus people alone is what it would take to set Recent Pages on fire again. Because for us a lot of the things happening right now in the print version is kind of a rerun, we've had those discussions ("omg Nogar!" etc) with each other once already. But to have people come here with fresh thoughts, fresh views on the plot, it would definitely be energizing for all of us. ^^ However, as long as the forum has zero Dina presence while she's all over Disqus, things aren't going to changeto such a direction.

Although this gave me another thread idea. A nostalgia type of thread where someone posts up a thing that recently happened in the print version and we can try to remember how we were feeling when we saw that scene for the first time. XD

Quote:
pffft, the commenters believe she's behind the whole thing and can't wait to see what she has in store next. <.<
Yeah, I noticed that, too, and I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry. XD

Well, Dina did phrase it as "we are having a contest" so anyone not familiar with the forum could easily be able to misinterpret that as something Dina is involved in.

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 Post subject: Re: [TPN HIATUS SPECIAL] SYM Debate: Rough Draft Forum?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:28 pm 
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I've resolved myself to post on the comments page for people to come here and chat. I doubt it will do much but least its some form of effort.

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 Post subject: Re: [TPN HIATUS SPECIAL] SYM Debate: Rough Draft Forum?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:40 pm 
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On Disqus you mean?

It sure would be cool if we got us some new (active) members. ^^

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 Post subject: Re: [TPN HIATUS SPECIAL] SYM Debate: Rough Draft Forum?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:48 pm 
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Yeah in the disqus comments section. It's not much to do it since I already have a account to post on Strays and DreamScar, Pandect would only take a extra second or so.

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 Post subject: Re: [TPN HIATUS SPECIAL] SYM Debate: Rough Draft Forum?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:48 pm 
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Go Sagie! Lure those Cherokees in! *^o^*

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 Post subject: Re: [TPN HIATUS SPECIAL] SYM Debate: Rough Draft Forum?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:10 pm 
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Come talk about the new pages with me guys!
It's a Nogar one!

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